Cybran Invisibility/Stealth

[Archigo]

I made a test game with era, where we had a double stealth (invisible) cybran ACU, and flew a t3 scout over. all well and good, he got visible for a sec, as he should. Now, era put strats on the ACU in that moment, but they stayed on the ACU forevermore.. so even though the com was invisible, and walking around, the strats just kept following and bombing the ACU even though era never got vision after that first t3 scout.

Summary: attack orders on units that later turn invisible, stay on forever, making invisibility useless.

affects: Cybran ACU and Cybran SACU.

I think the same issue is true with normal stealth when long range units are shooting them while they go under a stealth field.

Here is the replay of my test game with era: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzf28ewibndlehi/4563566.fafreplay?dl=0

[Sprouto]

It's an age old issue. Once locked onto a target - the lock is not lost when a unit is either no longer in view or on radar.

[Archigo]

Then it might be worth to either look at solving it, or rebalance the cybran ACU with something else, since it can really break his survivability compared to what other ACU's can get.

[ZLO_RD]

it affects all units, not only ACU or SACU, it is not related to cloak or stealth.
It is just that: if you right click on enemy unit, your units will still keep thier attack order, unless target is no longer reachable by unit's weapons (if acu goes underwater, or loads on transport or dies or unit got gifted to other player), or in case of structures if it gets an upgraide (witch is basicly vanishes old unit and gives you new one, same with gifting), but in any other case, like loosing vision, or going under stealth or cloak fields will not make units loose target.

AFAIK going underwater or in stansport will not help against units with multiple weapon types, like CZAR, that even has torpedos...

problem also related to transports that are targetted by interceptors, selens that are targeted by lots of things, sometimes moles, even stealth fields targetted by t2 pd after 1 scout run, and countless other examples

knowing if enemy unit can or can't lock their targed on you, and how they behave if they do so - is important knowlage to have in this game, ofc cloaked units are most annoying example, and yes if you got scouted just for a second, then enemy can just right click on your cloaked ACU and you might be doomed after that

Maybe we could consider making an exeption for cloaked units and make enemy units unable to targed cloaked units if they do not have omni vision on them
or even for all units to just loose orders if target got out of vision/radar range, that is how it was in Vanilla afaik
but that also brings problem of wierd slow step by step vision radius update in game, witch makes it annoyign cause you sometimes don't have vision on things that you should have vision on

Edit: for me these are just a rules of a game, they just open or close certain possibilities... and if we make units loose target when target leaves vision/radar then game will suddenly require MUCH more babysitting for some units, especially air units...

wonder if that case air unit problem could be solved by adding radar that only detects air units and putting it on every interceptor

[Archigo]

My issue is just that it seems a bit unfair for the cybran ACU's only survival measure to be broken, since you usually play assasination. Seing as there are only two cloaked units, it seems like what you suggested with omni required for targeting would be a great fix for them. Otherwise, if it's too much work to change the way mechanics work, i think that some other survival measure should be put in, instead of the cloak, for the cybran ACU.

This is probably not an issue in 1v1 games and on smaller more fast paced maps, but if you play some of the longer lasting maps, it becomes a huge issue.

The idea with an air radar to solve air targeting also seems like a great fix to me.

[ZLO_RD]

ehh honestly i don't really have that much of a poblem, i even have few tricks that can greatly improve your survivability as a cloaked commander

cloak creates big problem for your opponent to just being able to scout your acu and locate it's position, and then he will have to attack it, meanwhile acu may change position or something, so you have to scout again.
and don't fotget 30k HP that is an addition to cloak and ability to get laser, while UEF/aeon/sera just have HP buff and nothing else

[Archigo]

ehh honestly i don't really have that much of a poblem, i even have few tricks that can greatly improve your survivability as a cloaked commander

cloak creates big problem for your opponent to just being able to scout your acu and locate it's position, and then he will have to attack it, meanwhile acu may change position or something, so you have to scout again.
and don't fotget 30k HP that is an addition to cloak and ability to get laser, while UEF/aeon/sera just have HP buff and nothing else

Except they don't have to scout again as long as they set the attack order the first time. This is what i find broken. I haven't tested it, but it might even be possible to que up movement orders that end with the attack order and just move the movement point around if you want to delay the attack.

Sera can get huge hp pool and very good hp regen, while uef and aeon can remake their shield upgrades for a near instant shield refill.

Cybran only has the cloak and a bit of hp. It's true cybran has the laser that noone else has, but in return it's already nerfed with useless RAS, compared to sera and aeon with aras or uef which has the RAS in a spot where it doesn't prevent you from getting shield. (I'm not saying this needs to be changed, just that cybran already have some disadvantages, in addition to a semi broken cloak)

[ZLO_RD]

Except they don't have to scout again as long as they set the attack order the first time. This is what i find broken. I haven't tested it, but it might even be possible to que up movement orders that end with the attack order and just move the movement point around if you want to delay the attack.

yes you can delay your attack like that

[E8400-CV]

So where is the UI mod that makes that easier to abuse?