Sattelite and Mavor

[Iszh]

Just not to forget this topic. At the moment the spam stattelites is more useful than to built a mavor. There are several reasons for this.

Problems:
-Until you get 1 mavor already several sats are killing the enemy
-Sat is much more accurate
-Mavor is worse than 3 t3 stationary artis if they are in range
-UEF has no scouting unit to use mavor which is very needed for it. Ylona does not need a lot of precise scouting and paragon does not need as well as a game ender

Offers:
Sat sounds more like an intel unit for me and to remove the fact to have 2 weapons for the same thing (unlimited range weapon) i would suppose to make sat an exp intel unit like eye. Aeon got a non exp Mavor (salvation) so why not to give uef an experimental intel unit.

Example:
Sat costs 10k mass and uses 10k energy, can get adjacency of t3 pgens. the sattelite will stay the same but has no weapon anymore. Instead it gets 4km Vision (like soothsayer) and 4km omni and a t3 radar. Sonar i would not add because thats a bit strange to get sonar in space

Result:
Mavor has a scout and uef can use t3 arti and mavor better than any other faction because of great scouting.

[zeroAPM]

uef can use t3 arti and mavor better than any other faction because of great scouting.

Eye of Rihanne + Emissaries.

pros:
Less cost, more damage, more precision (thus more effective DPS)

cons:
Relatively small intel radius

[Iszh]

3 Emissaries vs mavor:
-Emissaries have a bit more dps
-Mavor has much more splash and is more accurate
-Costs are more or less the same but Emis need more t3 pgens (fire rate increase)
--> Mavor is better but needs more time

Eye of rhiannavs "new" Sat:
-Eye cheaper but much worse scouting
-Eye can uncover area in no time sat has to fly in position to see something
-->"new" sat would cost more but is much better you can watch the pants of your enemy with a flying t3 omni array


But in general a nice example.

I just noticed that this idea has a disadvantage. Atm you could use combined sat mini scout und mavor to kill low life targets faster with sat. For example mavor hits the shields down and sat can burn the shields away. But i am not sure if this is really needed since mavor has so massive damage that it will anyways kill everything what is under the shields fast enough.

[zeroAPM]

-Mavor has much more splash

True but with the shield damage transfer and the 3 seconds dealy for the regeneration to kick in and the DOT effect the emissary win in the long run (and also, Emissary area damage=5, Mavor=7)

and is more accurate

False, try for yourself in a sandbox game.

IMHO both the satellite and the Mavor could get a overhaul.

Walls of text incoming

Mavor

Spoiler: show

Mavor: much higher damage and area of effect (nuke size), enough to devastate entire armies (maybe 1-shot a ML if hit dead on?), waaaay lower firing rate (ROF: newMavor+4T3 Pgens=1/2 FAFMavor) and ridicolous spread (setons example, you aim for air spot, you might hit front base)
Special: If it has uninterrupted intel on the enemy, the projectile can home on the descending phase, the homing "strenght" depends on the intel on the target at the moment of firing, if the intel "degrade" (eg: enemy get out of Omni or Radar range) the homing "strenght" degrades accordingly, if all intel is lost for even a istant the projectile stops homing.
Homing strenght: no intel=0 (can't hit the broad side of a continent), radar=1 (might nick the edge of a large base if you aim at the middle), Omni=2 (can reliabily hit the edges), Vision=3 (quite good accuracy), radar+vision=4 (very accurate), omni+vision=5 (Pinpoint accurate even against moving targets)

Example: you have vision and radar on the target, on the descent phase the projectile starts homin in slightly, you lose vision, projectile homing degrade (steer slowlier), you get radar back up again, projectile DOES NOT improve it's aiming

In this way the Mavor becomes a true game ender if intel is mantained on the target, if not it is more inaccurate than a drunken Scathis

Novax

Spoiler: show

Lowered cost of centre, does not come with a satellite, instead satellite can be constructed by the centre, the centre works as a factory and as the weapon
The satellite is armed with a reflector, when ordered to fire the Centres shoots at the satellite and the satellite bounces the beam at the target
Satellite crash damage is much lower, also pieces of the wreck are scattered during the burn-in (optional but would be cool to see it break apart)
The beam generation at the centre requires a continuos amount of energy, Pgens lower the amount required, P-Storages increase the damage of the beam
Centres try to sprad their beam to as many un-served attacking satellites
Multiple centres can give power to the same satellite, the damage is greater than the sum of the individual beams (example 2 centres+2 satellites=200% damage, 2 centres+1 satellite=220% damage)
A centre servicing two satellites will deal less total damage than by servicing one (1 centre+2 satellites=80% damage total)
A satellite serviced by 3 or more centres will start to take damage, because of the low HPs of the satellite it is preferable that this doesn't happen
Satellites can be destroyed by anti-nukes (manual targeting)

Quick sketch

mavor and intel accuracy.png (1.17 MiB) Viewed 2883 times

P.s. This will most likely require Resin's Magic Hand, assuming the engine even allows it

[Mycen]

Ugh, why do people keep making these topics? Mass Novaxes are NOT always more useful than a Mavor. Go play a map that a unit like the Mavor is designed for, and you will see what I mean. If you try to use eleven Novaxes for offense on Betrayal Ocean you'll wish you had just built one and a Mavor, because they take forever to get from place to place. The Mavor can retarget anywhere on the map immediately.

And I can't believe you guys are bringing up the T3 arty/Mavor comparisons again. Comparison between these two units in terms of DPS for cost is as ridiculous as comparing T1 and T3 mobile artillery only by cost. In any situation where you should even be considering building a Mavor, it is because T3 arty lack the range to reach any good targets. So their DPS for cost ratio is irrelevant, because your T3 arty have zero DPS to targets you can't reach. There are maps besides Setons...

Atm you could use combined sat mini scout und mavor to kill low life targets faster with sat. For example mavor hits the shields down and sat can burn the shields away. But i am not sure if this is really needed since mavor has so massive damage that it will anyways kill everything what is under the shields fast enough.

Yes, this is one good example of how these units work effectively. And you're right the first time, they really do help each other. While the Mavor has high damage, RoF, and splash, it is not particularly accurate, so it is often as likely as not that against a specific target shields might regenerate before the Mavor hits it again. The Novax allows you to reliably and immediately destroy the shields once the Mavor drops them, or just destroy the target itself.


Could the Mavor (and Novax, to a degree) use some balancing? Sure! Do they need a totally rework? Absolutely not.

[zeroAPM]

The idea was to make them dependant on one another.

The Novax becomes a intel device that can double as a weapon at the expense of large-ish amount of energy.

The Mavor becomes a extremely powerful artillery piece that needs constant intel (like the one provided by a Novax) to actually hit anything.

[IceDreamer]

Mavor suggestion is impossible. Having the projectile gain a homing ability half-way through the arc can be done but tying the level of homing to the level of intel is impossible. If it turns out to be possible, it would only be with an extreme level of hacky coding and would almost certainly be full of bugs.

Besides that, Mavor doesn't need a total re-work, and certainly not one resulting in less accuracy. The unit is extremely simple and should remain so: A big pokey stick used to blast holes in things from across the map. It needs a bit more accuracy, a bit more AOE, and a bit more power, nothing more.

Regarding one unit being dependant on another, this is not Starcraft or Age Of Empires. SupCom never works in that manner, where one unit REQUIRES another. There are units which have good synergy, but they do so indirectly or through clever application of the individuals, not by the designer saying 'These units should be useless without each other'.

In short I think your ideas are unnecessary, misguided, and ultimately impossible anyway.

[zeroAPM]

Hmm, true (i'm just a -10 noob after all).

What about the satellite one then? Becoming some sort of energy-inefficent artillery with integrated spotting?
The only other way I can think to make it not suck is by making so that every allied tac missile inside it's radar range become homing thus gaining a synergy with cruisers, spearhead and gifted torrents

[Mycen]

The thing is, it doesn't suck as it is now, so...

There are lots of threads about how to get effective use out of the Novax, look through some of them.

[IceDreamer]

Yup, Novax is pretty much fine. Mavor... Mavor could do with a buff, definitely, it's not even close to as powerful as a Paragon or Yolona Oss, or even Salvation. Oh, and don't bring up 81K maps because A: They're not played much and B: Mavor can't hit even the largest base reliably at that range, it's useless trying.