3599 Balance Direction

[SunTzu]

Hi all,

Why dont go back to 3599 Balance and fix all the Bugs, then watch what is really OP and what is UP?
Becasue FAF balance killed many strategies, strengthen and weaken from factions and nearly made a complete new game with engie-redisign or other stuff.


I can understand that my frend made an own Lobby becasue it was not possible to discuss with ZEP at the beginn from FAF.
And i must agree with him even when many peoples dont have the same opinion about this game and game-balance..

There was many changes in my opinion that really was not nessesary and some important things (like jester can shoot other gunships/transports) was never get patched.
I dont know why this is happend but i think the really good players in gpg times never get asked about balance things.

Thats the reason im really looking forward to dstojkov's GPG unleashed lobby, even when i ofthen think its really pity that he need to do that instead working together...

and dont understand me wrong, FAF did some very good changes for sure but in my opinion it was more bad changes than good ones.

P.S: About the 1v1 Ladder i need to agree with some peoples they say it need a good functioning ladder that is Fair and up to date.
it really makes this game intresting to new and old players.
But at the moment this "true Skill" system, the fact that this ladder never get a reset and other bugs was not really a good advertise...


Greez to all FA Fans.
SunTzu / Zbinden Erich

[rootbeer23]

Hi all,

Why dont go back to 3599 Balance and fix all the Bugs, then watch what is really OP and what is UP?

you can propose any balance change you want, but it has to be from the current balance and has to be
in smaller steps than that. Each change must be an independent proposal.

[IceDreamer]

Why dont go back to 3599 Balance and fix all the Bugs, then watch what is really OP and what is UP?

Mainly because we had years of 3599, and 95% of the then-community considered the balance completely broken. 3603, the GPG beta patch, introduced a few issues, but it was the basis for the vast majority of the balance decisions FAF has taken over the past few years. Even the majority of the Steam playerbase shudder when you mention 3599, those who remember it.

Please feel free to submit balance change ideas for consideration by the community, but please be ready to not throw a strop if the community doesn't agree with you. Also be ready to punch the air in celebration if they do!

[rootbeer23]

i see no reason though not to have 3599 in faf for nostalgic reasons.
if its just another button among the other seldomly clicked featured mods who cares.
lets make a minority happy.
i am sure patcher2.0 can handle that.

[SunTzu]

hey all,

IceDreamer:

Im agree that many years past since the gpg 3599 balance...
faf do 37 patches now and i see that many things changed in the wrong direction (my opinion for sure).

About Steam i dont talk here, they stay on 3603 and thats it...(and in 3603 we had ES for OC and comm dead nuke change thats was huge changes for old players)

rootbeer23:

Im totally agree with u when u say it has to be in smaller steps, thats the point and that is what faf not do from beginn...
the steps was to big and sometimes its was only "good" for advanced or beginner players (like t3 air costs, or raise the t4 costs).

and why it need to change from the current balance?
because in gpg u had much more diffrent tactic and strategies (in teamgames AND in 1v1's).
Just a few examples:

-In 3599 balance u can make t1 ghettos with fewer risk
-u can make fast t3 air with fewer risk ( and it was not OP even with the strong restos...)
-u see much more base swap games ( what im really like to see)
-u see more t4 in 1v1's what i also like to see
-in teamgames u saw more mutiple comm explosions because the comm death nuke was on 4k that anyway was more realistic (in my opinion)
-u see more ghetto gunships because the transports have more hp...
and many other things that i cant remember atm (maybe because im getting old too;)) im understand the idea from some changes like the ES or the mobile bombs from cybran, im totally agree to change units or building the never get used in ladder games or that was used to much. but then the changes really was to big.
What i also see in the last years is that many new patches come out but nearly never the do some repatch from bad changes...

for examples: the t4 costs get higher and then the t3 percivals get nerfed O_o??
thats really contra productive...

and i dont want a 3599 featured mod just for "nostalgic" reasons
then better do nothing than that...

and i want to say again:
i dont want to troll or hating about FAF, no i like to see that peoples want to have FA alive...
but then pls just be really carful with patching and balance changes.

Anyway, i saw in the last years that u can wright what u want in this forum, it wont change anything, dosent matter how good or bad arguments u have and that is what makes me angry...

greez from swiss
SunTzu

[Rogueleader89]

I never played 3599, I got out of gpgnet before forged alliance was a thing (and I assure you I never want to see the original vanilla supcom balance return ) so I have no idea if the balance now is better or worse than then nor do I really feel qualified to judge the current balance. That said, SunTzu, if your argument is that tactics have somehow been more limited due to the changes faf has made, then there are a few things I'd suggest you do:

First, figure out what changes from the current balance you think would help make those tactics more viable, we aren't going to revert 37 patches that I'm pretty sure the majority of the community would say have improved the game overall (perhaps not every decision was great but based on what I've seen I think its safe to say most people prefer the current faf over 3599), not to mention that many of these patches have had important bug and exploit fixes which then had to have balance fixes attached to them to not overpower things.

Second, don't dismiss the idea of having a 3599 featured mod up and being played, the best way to prove that we have lost tactics over the years is to have games being played in older versions by people of decent rating, having these sorts of replays as clear evidence is a very important step to shifting balance in this direction if you want things to change, but remember that things will ideally always come in small changes, reverting to 3599 is too large of a change at this point to ever be done all at once and honestly having painstakingly gone over every change faf has done over its many balance patches I don't think we will ever exactly match the balance of a previous version of forged alliance (nor would we want to, as stated before bug and exploit fixes do occasionally spur needed balance changes).

Lastly, abandon the idea of achieving everything you have listed. I fully agree with you that if it is possible to expand the tactical options available to players we should try to do so, but I have no idea how we'll do it or if those new tactics will be the same as tactics we've supposedly lost. Similarly, some of the things you list are not desirable to everyone, for instance I don't agree that we should change the comm death nuke back to 4k, I like not having multiple commander explosions as often, perhaps the community as a whole will decide against my opinion here or perhaps they will side against yours, I have no idea, but in the end things like that are more about how the game feels than its balance and there isn't really a right or wrong answer there. Similarly, 3599 undoubtedly did have balance problems as faf almost certainly does now, its possible that some of these balance problems can only be fixed by limiting certain tactics, I don't know if that's true or not, but its a very important thing to keep in mind that even though a tactic is fun it or the things that allow it, are not necessarily balanced or desirable; similarly a changing the balance to make one tactic more viable may destroy another tactic.

[belatedcube]

Why dont go back to 3599 Balance and fix all the Bugs, then watch what is really OP and what is UP?

I don't remember patch 3599 but I am pretty sure that it is a lot alike the steam's balance and if so I do NOT want to see it on FAF. top reason why is that strats can be completed at min 4.

[Ze_PilOt]

i see no reason though not to have 3599 in faf for nostalgic reasons.
if its just another button among the other seldomly clicked featured mods who cares.
lets make a minority happy.
i am sure patcher2.0 can handle that.

Patcher 1.0 can handle that. The problem is that accepting a balance mod as featured is opening the pandora box. That can only divide the community at the end (look at TA Spring).

I really hope the roadmap will not lead to such thing.

Also : If you feel that an older patch version could be good as feature mod, it's probable that there is a problem in the current one. Better fix the current one that going backwards.

[rootbeer23]

i see no reason though not to have 3599 in faf for nostalgic reasons.
if its just another button among the other seldomly clicked featured mods who cares.
lets make a minority happy.
i am sure patcher2.0 can handle that.

Patcher 1.0 can handle that. The problem is that accepting a balance mod as featured is opening the pandora box. That can only divide the community at the end (look at TA Spring).

if one half wants to play version A and one half wants version B then thats what it is.
all we need then is an official mod for new players that are not supposed to make decisions and are easily confused.

[Ze_PilOt]

And when new players will see a list of a dozen of variations of almost the same thing, they will give up.

That was my first experience with TA Spring : Going online, play game.... okay, what's the difference between balanced Annihilation, XTA and NOTA? What is the best... Oh, crap too much time to educate myself on the most basic function I can do on this thing, let's go back to game x.

I only when back a few months later with some friends that were more educated about the mods. And even like that, some of the guys in the group wanted to play another mod. Switching back and forth, not learning how to play the game. Didn't last long.

Having a single, direct, straight and clear choice, without compromise, is what FAF is built on. Changing that now is killing the spirit of the project.